PieFed DK
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You know what's even more confidential? Running models locally on my machine without connecting to some third party's servers.
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Hey, I have amd so I can only run CPU based, and I'll have you know that I can absolutely still run models with even slower response times!
exuYou can run models on AMD GPUs though
Really?
When I was looking into ollama, I could have sworn it was Nvidia or CPU. Can you point me to the docs to make it work on AMD? Running Bazzite if it matters.
Ollama only has some of the backends from llama.cpp for unknown reasons.
https://github.com/ggml-org/llama.cpp?tab=readme-ov-file#supported-backends
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Lumo represents one of many investments Proton will be making before the end of the decade to ensure that Europe stays strong, independent, and technologically sovereign. Because of legal uncertainty around Swiss government proposals to introduce mass surveillance — proposals that have been outlawed in the EU — Proton is moving most of its physical infrastructure out of Switzerland. Lumo will be the first product to move.
This shift represents an investment of over €100 million into the EU proper. While we do not give up the fight for privacy in Switzerland (and will continue to fight proposals that we believe will be extremely damaging to the Swiss economy), Proton is also embracing Europe and helping to develop a sovereign EuroStack for the future of our home continent. Lumo is European, and proudly so, and here to serve everybody who cares about privacy and security worldwide.
Good stuff hidden at the bottom of the article.
Backpack4317Deleted by author
Echedelle (she/her)When Proton CEO gave suppot to Trump early this year, everything was already dead for me.
Faking their walled garden into security and now this...
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originaluciferhe wont. they never do.... ive tried.
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they wont consider anything you say thats 'pro' ai. they wont think.
bcovertigoDeleted by author
As a public person, he could just state the obvious if so.
Like with politicians in a lot of countries, their lifes [CEOs like him] are public and so must be for him, in order to ensure a minimun transparency.
If he really sees it in that way, he could just state it, yet he picks support as those who do what is convenient.
A lot of liberals follow trump, and not necessarily agree in everything with him. Just like a lot of people in germany supports Afd as they think it will improve the economy.
Yet all this is shit itself. The lack of universal ethics in those actions.
ha, right! one employee says one thing and thats the end for the entire company??
stupid. and the idea that the whole conversation is tainted because 'conceit' is also kinda hilarious
Kind of light on details. "Lumo is based upon open-source language models". Okay. Which ones? [Edit: they offer more details at https://proton.me/support/lumo-privacy : "The models we’re using currently are Nemo, OpenHands 32B, OLMO 2 32B, and Mistral Small 3"]
Not sure how I feel about this. I figured Proton would find some clever way to run models on encrypted data, or at least do something akin to Apple's "private cloud compute" but...nope, just another cloud platform like any other. Zero-logging is all fine and good, but don't pretend like you can't access my chats when the only thing stopping you is your logging policy.
Web search — If you ask it to, Lumo can search the web for new or recent information to complement its existing knowledge.
Again, no details. So you're not sharing my data, but you are potentially leaking it to unnamed search engines? Cool, cool.
Oh, and it has built in Proton Docs integration, in case you wanted to accidentally send your documents, unencrypted, through Proton's servers. And also maybe leak their contents to a third-party search engine, who knows?
Please, Proton. E2EE or GTFO. The world doesn't need another chatbot. If you can't do it right, just don't do it.
Lumo itself claims to be based on Mistral's Large model, which is not open weight.
https://lemmy.world/comment/18393337
https://docs.mistral.ai/getting-started/models/models_overview/
Agreed, the lack of E2EE is a huge miss for a company that built its reputation on privacy - running open models like OLMO and Mistral is nice, but without true end-to-end encryption, your prompts are still visible to them, which defeats the whole "private AI" marketing thingg.
And to where exactly are the servers moving? And why do they still have a Twitter link?
Transparency is key!
Doll_Tow_Jet-skiprivacy first
model is not open source
trust me bro we don't share your data
It's the Mistral Large model. Mistral does open source many of their models but not the large.
Did Proton train their own LLM or is it a Mistral model?
BaŝtoI don’t get it? This is more about a chatbot service than about LMM, right? It doesn’t sound like they release the model, which would mean it’s less privacy-friendly than running R1, Qwen3, Llama, Mistral or Gemma3 on your own machines. Google and Meta honestly offer better privacy with Gemma and Llama.
Edit: Okay, "Private LLM Called Lumo" is what the title of this post says, that has nothing to do with what Proton wrote. Proton only wrote that it won’t be used to train LLM.
I’ll still stick to Ollama + https://github.com/n4ze3m/page-assist
Alexander
katy ✨god andy yen is just the worst; he continues to ruin proton any way he can.
What is wrong with adding an llm? That is not even integrates in other proton products?
EU needs in-house LLMs
They said it integrates with Proton Drive. Optional, but still. That is data that is otherwise strictly end-to-end encrypted, and now they're adding a "convenient" method to send it through their AI unencrypted, and they are not upfront about that.
Proton has a problem with focus. They keep adding new things of limited value, presumably in a quest for growth. That usually doesn't end well.
Proton is based in Switzerland. Not EU.
Edit: Apparently that's changing.
Because of legal uncertainty around Swiss government proposals to introduce mass surveillance — proposals that have been outlawed in the EU — Proton is moving most of its physical infrastructure out of Switzerland. Lumo will be the first product to move.
llms are rubbish and shouldn't exist
iktgreat! then why are you here?
please let the adults in the room have a discussion
I understand your point of view, but I think that in today’s society, a company can’t afford to fall too far behind when it comes to current uses. I’m perfectly aware of the risks that AI brings, but if it can enable some people to find a -private- way out of American AI, I think it’s a good thing.
it can enable some people to find a -private- way out of American AI, I think it’s a good thing.
Lol what?
There is nothing private about taking ZK encrypted data and feeding through another man's server unencrypted.
Educate yourself please.
Ever since Proton went MAGA their presence has just gotten weirder. This is another giant step in a direction nobody wanted.
Glad I dropped them.
Andy the bootlicker lost touch with the people he serves
He should go kiss the ring of the pedo king again
Pathetic
John
harc
WaćpanDzięks! – podaję dalej i proponuję swoim organizacjom.
Warto odnotować:
Because of legal uncertainty around Swiss government proposals to introduce mass surveillance — proposals that have been outlawed in the EU — Proton is moving most of its physical infrastructure out of Switzerland. Lumo will be the first product to move.
Tam się od szeregu lat coś dziwnego dzieje:
- http://news.un.org/en/story/2020/09/1072192
W UE też jest problematyczna tendencja do wracania do koncepcji złamania prywatności, tak raz na rok czy dwa.
+1; pewnie; jest, jak jest.
Safe havens dla danych/prywatności nie ma tak wiele; wraz ze wzrostem autorytaryzmów czy ogólnie zaostrzaniem relacji międzynarodowych i/lub wewnątrzkrajowych na świecie (które napędzają "spirale inwigilacji" po jurysdykcjach – abstrahując, na ile "zimne wojny hybrydowe" są realnym zagrożeniem – niestety, w świecie opartym na rywalizacjach wierzę, że w jakimś stopniu tak jest, choćby w mechanizmach "samospełniającej się wróżby" czy "efektów sieciowych"). Nabieram przekonania, iż w pewnym momencie zacznie się Nurtom Idealistycznym (jak np. Nierynkowa Wolność czy Demokratyczny Konfederalizm) opłacać migrować całe data store'y i przepływy np. na Darknety, co poskutkuje tym, iż progiem wejścia dla osób (z tego faktu konsekwencjami) stanie się ogarnianie np. Tora, I2P, IPFS lub ich alternatyw/następców (Internet Computer?). C'est la vie, toteż IMHO warto przygotowywać (uświadamiać, szkolić) Społeczności z Baniek (Filarów). Oczywiście przyjdą na to osoby, których nie powinno tam być – makiaweliści, nieprzyjaciele Wolności – i ich odfiltrowywania muszą się pięknoduchowsx Idealistx też, niestety, nauczyć. Jak to czynić bez wzmacniania elitaryzmów-awangardyzmów (czyli niejawnych hierarchii obalających Inkluzywność czy Konsensualizm) pozostaje otwartym (przynajmniej dla mnie) problemem.
Islandia (nie UE, nie Alians Pięciorga/Dziewięciorga/Czternaściorga+ Oczu, a za to członek-założyciel NATO):
http://cyberinsider.com/ctemplar-email-shutting-down-alternatives/ .
Aczkolwiek z przetwarzaniem publicznych i jawnych danych organizacyjnych przez nawet własnościowe, korporacyjne AI/ML(-LLM/LRM), uczciwie, nie mam najmniejszego problemu – lecę na założeniu, że "co w Necie, to już zescrape'owane". Trzeba wykonać demarkację, co może lecieć na obcą infrę/do chmur, a co musi pozostać na gwarantowanym E2E-/ZKE (hint: RODO).
rysiekEch.
https://pivot-to-ai.com/2025/08/02/protons-lumo-ai-chatbot-not-end-to-end-encrypted-not-open-source/
Proton says your chats are stored with the same zero-access encryption as your email. That’s great! But their wording is: “end-to-end encryption in your chat history.”
What are the ends in this scenario? And why not just say “end-to-end encryption in your chat”? Well, obviously, because they can’t say that.
If you’re using a remote chatbot like Lumo, the chat has to exist as plain text for the chatbot to see it, for some unspecified length of time. Same if you dump files into the chatbot from your end-to-end-encryptoed Proton Drive — their version of Google Drive.
That’s how most web services work, and it might not sound like a big deal — but Proton’s email famously does not work like that. There is never plain text at rest. So Proton is trying to handwave on their past reputation and say, well, parts of it are totally secure. Just not the rest.
Proton also used to publish complete cryptographic threat models for its products. They didn’t for the AI email assistant and they haven’t for Lumo. It’s a glaring absence.
Proton Drive integration — You can easily add end-to-end encrypted files from your Proton Drive to your chats with Lumo.
Ciekawe! Czyli lumo może uzyskać dostęp do danych szyfrowanych end-to-end. Co może pójść nie tak?!
fnkZakładam, że dzieje się to podobnie jak w przypadku dzielenia się plikami z Proton Drive - Ty jako właściciel zasobu, który ma do niego pełen dostęp, może nadać Lumo uprawnienia do udziału. Model szyfrowania i współdzielenia zasobów w Proton Drive jest dość dobrze (aczkolwiek mocno technicznie) opisany tutaj: https://proton.me/blog/protondrive-security
Ciekawe, użycie tych mechanizmów mogłoby rzeczywiście zredukować ryzyko. Dzięki za linka!
Jarek Kopeć
BłażejkoTylko szkoda, że plus trzeba dokupić . Nie występuje w pakiecie unlimited. Info z supportu po tym jak nagle miałem koniec dyskusji z Lumo bo przekroczyłem limit :P ...
obsidianfoxxy7870Built by a company that isn't responsible. That doesn't open source stuff in an honest way. Built by a company that will shutdown journalists accounts because they where asked to. By a company with a CEO that supports Trump.
Beyond AI just sucking in general Proton also sucks and uses not being "big tech" as an excuse to be pathetic.
I get the FOMO about having their own AI, but in my books making Drive usable and having a Linux app for drive would be way higher on the priority list. Get the basics right first.
How about notifications for the android mail app, for users without Google Services
Not disagreeing with you, but to me it seems they are clearly on the path of expanding their user base atm. This does fit perfectly in that strategy. Getting the basics right would be the morally better thing to do, but might not be the best way to grow their business which could actually be the right decision in the long run. I mean being in the news does get you a lot of new paying users.
But will they ever improve the basics? Cause it's been like five years
They should, definitely. But I am a consumer talking from the pov of a consumer so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Oh no, the MAGA company has disappointed the MAGAs. How are they going to burn this one in protest?